November 22, 2017

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  #21  
Old 04-09-2016, 12:25 AM
RichShady603 RichShady603 is offline
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Originally Posted by bridgeman View Post
Why don't we start stocking snakeheads in the lower Merrimac? I'm sure there are a handful of people in Southern NH that would enjoy fishing for them. I get that most of our fishing is for nonnative or stocked fish. Does that green light every stocking project anyone comes up with? It almost seems that our aquatic ecosystems are such a lost cause that it doesn't mater what we do.
yes snakeheads are interesting and those flying asian carp things.. And for the salmonoid guys we can stock Taimen.. Since the Atlantic Salmon program is done we should also take another look at the Coho stocking
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  #22  
Old 04-09-2016, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris_NH View Post
I read an interesting history of a state out west, Montana maybe?, eliminating all fish stocking years ago, and instead focused on habitat improvement, and their fishery improved amazingly as a result. Might be worth considering.

I would rather catch wild trout than mealy stock truck dropoffs any day of the week even if it meant a few lean years in the interim. There's a lot to be said for self sustainability.

Montana Wild Trout Management

Why introduce invasive highly predatory species at the expense of native species - anywhere? How does that fit into the definition of conservaton? NH once had fish that rivaled that which are now in Montana waters. I can tell you about it because I've lived it. I grew up fishing the upper Andro and Connecticut in the early 60's. The Andro used to produce three species of trout that ranged up to 10 lbs. The CT too was known for beautiful landlocks and huge browns. Granted that some of these were non-native, they were self-sustaining and co-existing with native trout and salmon. The ecology was balanced. But when was the last time you heard about trout of that caliber being caught from these rivers? or even something that resembled a wild trout? The Andro is so infested with illegally stocked smallmouth and northerns now that there is little to no natural trout reproduction taking place. I was on the Andro last year and witnessed a school of bass fry that were as thick as a cloud. It was huge. Now the Andro/Umbagog infestation has spread into the Magalloway and Rapid.
NH waters have been so mismanaged for so long that I question whether some could ever be restored. It's very frustrating to have loved these waters and to watch the very people WE PAY to protect our waters actually doing the crime of ruining them. Nuff said... blood pressure is rising.

Last edited by FurFace; 04-09-2016 at 09:06 AM.
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  #23  
Old 04-09-2016, 10:09 AM
Chris_NH Chris_NH is offline
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Originally Posted by Hunter Dan View Post
Question: If you shake your fist and scream "wild fish and nothing but" at the top of your lungs - yet turn up your nose at the many wild fish that spawn, hatch, grow, swim and die in our waters just because they're not salmonids - are you a hypocrite???
In 35 years of fishing I've never witnessed anyone shaking their fist and screaming about wild fish, but I have witnessed, countless times, people going overboard on hyperbole to try to make a point...

I enjoy catching all sorts of fish. Many times last summer I grabbed my little 3 wt and my box of midges and had a ball catching dace here on the Andro. Most of the time when you see fish rising here that's generally what they are. Flipping one of my #18 griffith's gnats with a #20 pheasant tail variant with ice dub thorax dropper that gets just below the surface is deadly on the dace, and the occasional trout will actually grab it too.

I guess I just prefer catching fish that I know were born there. I view stocking as a sort of welfare for fish. Survival of the fittest works and welfare generally brings down the whole herd long term, despite the possible noble intentions of those calling all the shots. Lots of parallels to draw there, but I digress...

Anyhow, I'd prefer seeing F&G focus on habitat improvements and forego the fish welfare. Nothing wrong with introducing non-native species, so long as they take hold and reproduce, but if they don't thrive then try something else. Maybe trout wouldn't thrive in many of the rivers, but I bet a good fishery of some sort would emerge and we'd all have a lot more fun fishing year round. The fish herd would be stronger, long term sustainable and expenses would have a downward trend rather than the other way around. Just my 2 cents, which is worth exactly what you've paid for it.
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  #24  
Old 04-09-2016, 10:19 AM
truiteman truiteman is offline
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The Conn River is an interstate water, VT and NH, and thus is governed, in finality, by the FEDS. If US F&WS hasn't put their two cents in and if VT and NH haven't done an environmental impact statement for the EPA, then a law suit should be filed.

I would also write the Governor, who is trying to become a US Senator, and let her know that she isn't going to want to be the one who oversaw and approved adding more invasive species to an already degraded watershed which would be a clear violation of the Clean Water Act.

JMHO, YMMV

Steve
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  #25  
Old 04-10-2016, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by truiteman View Post
I would also write the Governor, who is trying to become a US Senator, and let her know that she isn't going to want to be the one who oversaw and approved adding more invasive species to an already degraded watershed which would be a clear violation of the Clean Water Act.

JMHO, YMMV

Steve
What was that Chris_NH said about "people going overboard on hyperbole to try to make a point..." ? ? ? ?
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  #26  
Old 04-10-2016, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris_NH View Post
I enjoy catching all sorts of fish.
I guess I just prefer catching fish that I know were born there.
I view stocking as a sort of welfare for fish.
Anyhow, I'd prefer seeing F&G focus on habitat improvements . . .
Nothing wrong with introducing non-native species, so long as they take hold and reproduce, but if they don't thrive then try something else.
I concur with everything you said above.
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  #27  
Old 04-13-2016, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truiteman View Post
The Conn River is an interstate water, VT and NH, and thus is governed, in finality, by the FEDS. If US F&WS hasn't put their two cents in and if VT and NH haven't done an environmental impact statement for the EPA, then a law suit should be filed.

I would also write the Governor, who is trying to become a US Senator, and let her know that she isn't going to want to be the one who oversaw and approved adding more invasive species to an already degraded watershed which would be a clear violation of the Clean Water Act.

JMHO, YMMV

Steve
I beg to differ with you. While it is an interstate water, the Connecticut River fishery is pretty much owned and managed by the State of NH (to the low water mark on the VT shore), not the "feds". The USFWS enters the picture regarding cooperative management with the states on interjurisdictional migratory fish like Atlantic salmon, American shad, river herring, eels, lampreys, or federally listed T&E species like the dwarf wedge mussel for example. Just wanted to clear that up.
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  #28  
Old 04-13-2016, 12:31 PM
truiteman truiteman is offline
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Thank you for the clarification.

So NH F&G is condoning the destruction of a self sustaining wild trout fishery by stocking walleyes when other sections of the river already have walleyes?

Just want more clarification.

Thanks.

Steve
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  #29  
Old 04-13-2016, 02:40 PM
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Grayghost 6 Grayghost 6 is offline
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Originally Posted by truiteman View Post

So NH F&G is condoning the destruction of a self sustaining wild trout fishery by stocking walleyes when other sections of the river already have walleyes?
Dude - Do you REALLY think that is the desired goal of NH F&G? Or is it just that we all enjoy sarcasm and trash talking more than a discussion of the facts? There is nothing like a bunch of facts to screw up a perfectly good argument!

The presentation of the findings for this proposal is next Monday evening. They haven't told the public their study findings yet. I don't agree with every single thing that F & G does, and I might not agree with what they present this time, but I think they should be given a fair trial before they are shot.

BTW-Today's F&G website news states the bobcat hunting season proposal has been withdrawn. That process was more than it needed to be, but it worked out.

There was an article in the Hawkeye about this walleye proposal in which the author portrayed the Trout Unlimited people as part of the problem. I'm a TU member. That article persuaded me to make a donation to the Embrace-A-Stream program for the first time. I'd rather see more focus on habitat restoration than anything else too. The fishing community fighting against itself doesn't help solve problems.

Study the history of fishing in the Rangeley Lakes region of Maine. You will find there is over 150 years of well intentioned, thoughtful steps taken to "improve" the fishing that ultimately wasted the best of what could have been for all of us living today long before our parents were born.

Study the science carefully, choose wisely, and disagree as respectfully as you can if that's how you feel. Save the sarcasm and under-bus throwing for electing presidents.
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  #30  
Old 04-14-2016, 07:48 AM
truiteman truiteman is offline
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Grayghost,

Exactly my feelings 100%.

Glad you agree with me.

The only reason the bobcat thing got killed was that people spoke out against it.

I am choosing to speak out against introduction of invasive species and more restoration for our wild trout fisheries.

I apologize if it came across as trolling....it was anything but.

Steve
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