Bamboo Questions

[michaeledward]

I just got my first bamboo rod. It is a bit of a collector's piece, so I won't be fishing with it a lot, but it will see the water ... and hopefully some fish.

Are there any things that I should be aware of, concerning bamboo as opposed to graphite, when fishing? The rod came with two tips ... I think I will only ever fish with one of them, but, why two? Any special care behaviors I should be aware of? It appears to be a much softer, and much more flexible rod than my other gear ... what can I do to avoid problems.

Any insight you guys can offer, will certainly be appreciated.

Mike

[Tom Jutras]

Mike
Your rod comes with 2 tips so you can give each tip a rest after fishing days. Fishing with the same tip day after day can sometimes make a curve in the tip. If you are fishing for a couple of days or more you should rotate the tip used on the previous day to the corner of a room and let it relax to a straight position. Fish with the other tip for that day.

I find them a little heavier than graphite rods but the action can be fun when you are fishing dries. The action is so slow so you can backcast smoke a cigar and drink two beers before you forward cast. :lol: Years ago when the fiberglass rods were built they were trying to make the same action as a bamboo rod. I had an old Fenwick that was quite a rod in it's day and my nephew still fishes with it.

[OTTER]

Mike: I still have the Montague Fishkill I bought in 1946, also two bamboo rods I built soon after, until I could afford to buy my 7 1/2 foot Orvis Battenkill in 1952.

The reason why they came with two tips is because they break. What I mean is that before fiberglass, the bamboo rod is all we had. So it was used for everything from tiny brookies to big browns. It was pushed through tangles of alders, and required to stand up to a long cast when necessary; as well as car doors. And except for the Orvis, there were no replacement guarantees. I just fitted another ferrule or tip guide on and kept using them as they got shorter and stiffer.

Actually, I never broke my Orvis. I babied it since it cost a months salary. And the two tips are still as straight as they were 55 years ago.
Now the only time I use them is when I am alone, unhurried, and for small fish and small water. In other words very seldom.

Fly fishing used to be a delicate gentle experience. Today it is more of an athletic and competitive event. Yes, I use an 8 WT graphite for schoolie stripers. For an old timer, that is almost the same as using a spinning rod, if I wanted to be a picky snob. I don't. I still use everything from shiners, to frogs , and worms on occasion like the grandpa ( born 1878) who took me fishing back then.

Another factor is leader strength. I have in my hand leaders made of that wonder material, du Pont Nylon, in original unopened packages. One is 5X and 1.25 LB test. Today a 5x is 5.0 LB test. ( The 2X was 2.9 LB.)So use a 7X leader at most to equal the old 2X to minimize breakage. And if you are hung up, don't do all the herky jerky moves to free your fly like everybody does with the indestructable graphite of the present era.

[fessiewig]

Otter,

I need to fish with you . . . . . it seems all the water I fish has small fish :wink:

[Hegel]

I did my first bamboo casting this summer with a friend's rod on Spofford lake for smallies from the docks in Echo Cove. Otter's history is incredible - Otter, for what it's worth, I would love to spend a day or two fishing with you too!!! - but if you've never cast with one of these rods, give it a try. My bet is that, unlike Otter who sees the historical line that runs from bamboo through fiber-glass to graphite (to boron?) as a continuous story, you'll probably (if you're a relative youngster (I'm 31) and newbie to the sport) feel a serious break!

Moving from my TFO to the bamboo, and then back again over the course of a 5 hour period was like swtiching back and forth between two different worlds. Sure, in both cases I was fishing. But that's about where the similarities ended. The Bamboo rod (at least the one I was using) was so heavy in my hand, and its action was so slow, that it took me a half hour (okay, maybe an hour) just to get one back-cast-to-false-cast sequence down that resembled anything called fly fishing.

A few hours later when I was finally making what might reasonably be interpreted as "casts" with the bamboo fly rod, it was time to give it back. I picked up the TFO and it just about floated away... like a little kid holding a balloon at the fair. Then I cast the TFO. MAN, I was better. All the patience that the bamboo forces on you pays off in serious dividends with a new rod. I'm thinking about trying to procure and old bamboo rod (preferably one with EXTRA-SLOW action) to use a trainer... as a reminder of what's involved in good patient casting.

Anyone else out there have a similar experience? I know some of you teach casting lessons, does my experience ring true?
-Hegel-

[mer]

Bamboo is a completely different beast than graphite, particularly when comparing a "classic" bamboo and a newer graphite. Most bamboo actions are comparable to a Winston WT or an older fiberglass action; relax and let the rod do the work. On a bamboo rod, the taper is everything; you could make one that feels as tippy as a Sage TCR, or you can make one that you feel under your thumb on a 10 foot cast. Two tips was usual for a couple of reasons: Sets as mentioned above or breakage. The modern glues have pretty much reduced/eliminated the issue of sets and breakage, if your careful, most people don't break rods. Easier to go back to the car for the extra tip than send away for a new rod. Oh, bamboo isn't as fragile as people think: how many have had a graphite rod explode because you hit the rod with a beadhead and put a stress riser in it? Could you walk on the butt section of a graphite rod with your boots safely?

Hegel, what you learned from casting the bamboo is "how to listen to the rod". That translated directly into listening to the TFO :) An older fiberglass rod will give you a similar feel.

These are what I use:

http://home.netcom.com/~mremski/canerods.html

[fessiewig]

Nice rods :)

[Hegel]

Is there a way to find a bamboo rod that will work well and won't break the bank? To me it seems as though one aquires a bamboo rod through luck (it was in my dead-uncle's attic :o , so I took it home, it was left to me in my grandfather's will:cry: , I won it at a charity event:D , etc.) or by dropping some SERIOUS $$$$.:roll:

I'm not all that lucky and I don't have a lot of cash.... so?
Any ideas?

-Hegel-

[mer]

Fess, thanks. I found out very quickly that I like bamboo better (the history, the way it fishes, etc). I have one graphite rod, a Sage DS2 that is for "guests".

Hegel, most of the time, it's just ask. But here's a good way to start:
http://p205.ezboard.com/fclarksclassicflyrodforumfrm15.showMessage?topicID =155.topic

A bunch of bamboo rod types get together in a gym, people bring rods and make them available for anyone to try. Most bamboo people I know are very generous with talking about, and lending out rods. I've been on both the "offerer" and the "offeree" sides of that. As far as finding one, The Classic Rod forum above has a for sale board that you can keep an eye on. There are lots of dealers, more than a couple in Mass (Rick Taupier of SwiftRiver Fly Fishing is a good one). Price can be all over the map, used rods in good condition can be a great bargin ($300 on up), single tip rods are a good bargain (again $300 on up), newer makers/hobbiest makers offer a great bargain. Yes a "top tier name" can go for $1500 on up, but a perfectly fishable rod can be less than a top of the line graphite.

I usually fish the Souhegan (I'm in Merrimack so it's close) and am more than willing to let anyone that is curious about bamboo rods give them a whirl. Just give me a shout (email should be in profile or do it here) a couple days ahead of time.

[wet_fly_action]

Hegel- the best deals I have seen have been used orvis rods which can often be had for under $300 and since they're impregnated, are a little lower maintenence. In this case avoid ebay.
Mer has steered you on probably the best route since guys into bamboo seem pretty willing to bring someone new into the fold. And once you realize the number of hours into a rod you'll see what a bargain they are.
You can also always go the route I went. I built a glass rod this year and fished it just about everywhere. Not much out there slower and yes, it will make you a better caster. I've found that once you hit the "sweet spot" the rod and line seem to take on a life of their own and you end up standing there shaking your head saying "did I do that?" (like urkel). At least that was my experience. I am just starting to get to the point where i can do it consistently. And it goes without saying that it loads up easily with very little line out and the full flex thing makes it possible to fight and land quite large fish on a light rod.

[Gerry]

Hegel,

Don't write off ebay as a possible source for a rod - bamboo or otherwise. I have bought and sold quite a few things on ebay - including three bamboo rods - and have not been disappointed. Using good ebay tactics is key, no matter what you want to buy. Look for sellers with lots of positive feedback; read the description very carefully and ask questions to clear up any possible doubt about what is being offered for sale; know what you want to buy and set a limit on what you are willing to pay for it; and watch lots of auctions to understand the market for the item you want to buy. The other suggestion I would make, is to follow the previous suggestion about casting a variety of rods to see what you like to cast. Two of the rods I bought were well under $200 and they are fun to fish. The other I spent a little over $500 and it is now my "go-to" rod for all small and medium water situations. I still use my graphite rods for saltwater, big-fly/windy conditions, and when I am doing a lot of rock-hopping or bush-whacking, as well as for clients.

Tight lines,
Gerry

[michaeledward]

Hey everybody, thank you so much for your insights. I truly appreciate it.

It never occurrred to me to 'rest' a rod tip. And, I am horrified at the thought that I may nick the rod tip with a fly on a backcast --- especially with what I paid for this thing. This was one of those rods that prove that I have more money than brains.

I used to make fun of the people who I have become :shock:

Thanks again all.

[mer]

Don't worry about nicking the rod tip, the rod can take it. The only thing you have to remember is don't yank the rod to free a stuck fly. Point the rod at the fly and pull on the line with your other hand, breaking the fly off if need be. It's also a good idea to do free a stuck fly with a graphite rod this way too.

[fessiewig]

Hegel,

Here's a fellow that rebuilds used cane rods and resells them at reasonable prices.

http://www.reelwood.net/home.html

[HarryM]

Is there a way to find a bamboo rod that will work well and won't break the bank?

Hegel,

One of my cousins bought a bamboo rod from a company that had a small ad in the back of one of the FF magazines - Brand new with bag and a nice metal tube he paid about $300+ for it, which included an extra tip.

Personally, I have this thing about inexpensive asian imported products, so I would not buy one, and I was certain that what he bought was probably junk. He brought it to the house one day and I cast it in the front yard and I have to admit that it was pretty nice. He had a good quality line on it - some kind of synthetic silk and it was fun to cast. I imagined that an 8" brookie would be a blast with that rod.

I still would not buy one though, just hate to "outsource" products that we make just as well if not better right here in the USA - same philosophy as the support local shops thing. The argument goes full circle and is as true in macro as it is in microcosm.

If you bougt one though, I would not blame you or give you any grief - it's just a personal thing.

[Hegel]

HarryM,

Thanks for your post. I appreciate your having taken the time to relay the information even if you're not for procurring one of these rods yourself. I think it's cool that, despite having a negative opinion about buying foreign rods you nevertheless transmitted the information leaving it up to us to decide for ourselves.

For what it's worth I don't think your micro / macrocosm argument is a good one. But, that's a different matter. Suffice it to say that the reasons that I support local fly shops don't support the idea that I ought to buy a faceless Sage, for instance, over a faceless TFO.

But again, I do appreciate the information, very much, and I even appreciate you supplying reasons for why such a rod isn't for you. It's cool to supply reasons for why we hold the beliefs we hold. Then, we all understand where we stand.

Take care,
-Hegel- :)

[HarryM]

Hegel No problem - If it were practical for me, I'd get you the name of the rod he bought so you could have an easier time finding it. The problem is I would have to call my cousin and ask him. Now I will tell you that I gave him quite a ribbing about it, and even though it was friendly ribbing he would still ask why I wanted to know. If I told him it was for someone else, he would never believe me and I would have to listen to him give me crap. :roll:

[Hegel]

HarryM,

Don't sweat it... Though, if you ever catch your cousin, say, drunk - such that he won't remember in the morning - ask him about the bamboo rod for me and PM me or post it for all of us. Barring that, don't give him the ammo!

Thanks Again,
-Hegel-

[mer]

Chances are it was either a Headwaters or TeaStick. We've had a few for comparison out at SuperBoo, doing blind evaluations. The edge went to TeaStick as a little bit better. Cosmetically they are decent, execution of the tapers can be very hit or miss. Basically, the first few were not up to snuff. This is not to say that they haven't/won't get better. But if one looks at the price, used rods by known makers can be had (Orvis made lots of bamboo rods, impregnated, they last just about forever and are a good bargain). You can also get a single tip rod from a known maker for not a whole lot more. Keep in mind that the reasoning behind the two tips was: sets and breakage. Sets were largely due to glue technology at the time and breakage is pretty much in your control. Do you worry about a graphite rod not having two tips? ebay can be a good source, SouthBend, Granger, Heddon, Orvis, Phillipson are some of the names to keep an eye out for. The "For Sale" over at http://p205.ezboard.com/bclarksclassicflyrodforum is a good place to watch (my first choice). A couple of things to decide on are: what for (which leads to length/line weight) and price. The length/line weight brings up lots of "taper" discussions, which until you've cast a bunch of rods, they make your head hurt. For general trout fishing around NH and Mass, I'd stick in the range of 7' 4wt to 8' 5/6 wt. I do most of my fishing with a 7'6" 4wt and a 7'6" 5wt.

Oh, longer length rods are typically less expensive when looking at used rods. Basically just a "fashion statement". The typical rod used to be basically a 8'6" 6 wt, but fishermen started wanting shorter rods.

[overmywaders]

mer,

I'm not sure that South Bend is of the same caliber as the other production rods you mention. JMHO

As for the glue issue as a reason for sets, I don't think that is often the case. F.E. Thomas used hide glue right up to the end (1957); I have had no set problems with F.E. Thomas rods. I did get a casting set in a Phillipson Peerless after a person was double-hauling for 75' casts and it was overlined as well. Phillipson used urea-formaldehyde glue.

From my experience, the cause of sets is usually moisture absorption by the cane, bad "jumps" in the stick (one face stronger than others), and/or extreme stress. An old rodmaker told me that if you have a jump in the section, a set will eventually develop there.

YMMV

[mer]

I'll defer to Reed on the items he pointed out. I realize SB isn't in the same caliber, but was including it because you can get a "fishable" rod inexpensively.

Perhaps the sets vs glue is just one of the "common knowledge" myths that exists in literature.

[bamboo1963]

NEVER PUT THE ROD AWAY WET!

Before you put the rod back in the tube after a day of fishing, wipe the rod down with a clean, dry cloth.
When you get home, take the rod out of the tube and let it air dry for a day or two in a safe place.

I put mine on the dining room table to dry for a few days. What the hell, the table only gets used a few days a year, might as well get some use out of it. :lol:
Bob