2 -3 - 4 piece rods?

[Kype+]

I have been told that 4 piece rods have exploded as one section came loose. I may be forced to pick up a new 9ft # 5 this season. I have enjoyed 3 piece rods but 4 piece? I don't like that many parts to go wrong.
My question: What is your opinion on the number of sections in a 9 ft #5 graphite rod?
Also does anyone have experiance with Diamondback Classic Western series / DiamondFly Rods or the Hardy Angel TE 9 ft. #5 Rod.
I need power for distance with protective tip in a #5 rod.
Yap! I want it all!

Thanks!

Bobby

[fessiewig]

A single piece rod is absolutely the best! After that, I use 4 pc rods all the time and have had no problems with them. They are also easy to transport!

[Casey A. Wood]

I've had that problem with the 5 piece "Whte River" rod I have. Bought a 6 piece LL Bean Travel Rod and it happened only once, I think that was my fault for not having it on firm enough. The guy downto the W. Leb. LL says I can exchange it, or put a little parifin on the piece that keeps coming apart.

[Steamtrain]

casey-- exchange that rod, if it keeps occurring

kype-- after a 1 piece, i prefer even number of sections for easier transport. breaking down a rod in 2 equal lengths has advantages in cars and trucks

[fessiewig]

Exactly! I carry a white candle with me and "wax" the furrells (sp?) at least every other use.

[Casey A. Wood]

I'm so confused right now! All I want is to go fishing and have nice weather to go with it.

[OTTER]

I agree with Steamtrain. A 3 piece rod does not break down enough for major travels, and does not allow two equal halves for moving from place to place. For air travel, I do have a 5 piece 5 wt to toss in my bag. Otherwise a 5 piece is also a pain in the butt. I have also pretty much settled on 4 piece rods now that they are so available and reliable.

[Kype+]

So the 4 piece rods don't drive you guys crazy with moving the guide alignment or coming apart while casting or better yet while playing a fish. Boy that would piss me off! Good!

So what about the rods I mentioned? Anyone have an opportunity to cast them or fish them?

I like Hardy Rods. I have one cane and three graphite Hardy rods. I haven't had my hands on the Hardy Angel TE 9 ft. #5 Rod as of yet but it sounds like my kind of rod. It has 4 pieces and I need to work myself into that.

Years ago I fished a lot of Orvis rods and they would forever move! I even had the tip come off the rod on the forward cast. I sold every Orvis graphite rod and a bunch of Orvis cane rods and started all over again with Winston. I still have two Winston rods and like them but I don't get them at wholesale any longer so there are other options.

Some one here must have experience with Diamondback rods? It has been years since I cast one. At the time I liked how it handled.

As a side note if you ever see a Hardy Ultra-Lite 8 ft. #4 two piece with the reel seat designed for the European market buy it and you can thank me later! I have one now it is my second one I sold the first as a demo rod and sold a number of them. Everyone loved the rod! It is a powerful #4 weight that could plays big hot fish with no trouble what so ever.

Thanks for the comments. Maybe I can convince myself to try a 4 piece rod.

I understand what you are saying about 3 piece rods but there is no hinge in the midle. The 3 piece rods I have I wouldn't trade for the world. Unlike most people I put the reel in my hat on the floor of the passenger side of my truck and the rod sticks out the window slanting back. In all my years I haven't broken a rod yet doing it. I suppose I am just lucky.

Bobby

[logan]

You should talk to Tom Jutras at Mountain Road Fly. He sells the Diamondbacks. He also has a demo day coming up so you can try it on his casting pond.

As far as the pieces, my 9 wt. is a 4 piece and I have had no problems.

[Naticook Lures]

I have a Sage VT-2 9' 5wt 4 piece and never had any issues with it. I have used it for Bows, Sunfish, bass and even snagged a carp with it and have not had any cracks or issues with it.

[HarryM]

Some one here must have experience with Diamondback rods?

I have owned a few Diamondbacks over the years and have found them to be pretty good rods with consistant quality. One thing that dissapointed me with Diamondback was a couple years ago, they stopped using titanium on their higher end rods, but kept the price the same. I guess they realized that they were not running with the big boys (like Winston, etc.), so they went with less expensive materials so they could compete in the mid-grade level.

As far as sections coming apart during a cast, I agree with others who said to wax those ferruls - I do it a few times each season. It really is a must.

If the sections are "turning" on you, then you have a poorly made rod. This is a result of the power axis' of the rod not being properly lined up before they put the line guides on. This is definately a valid reason to return a rod for a new one. Unfortunately, I have heard this happen with Orvis rods more than just a couple times.

Lastly, I have a Diamondback I'm trying to sell. It has a couple of strikes against it, so I'm selling it pretty cheap. First, it's a 6wt rod. Seems like a 6wt is one of those in between weights that often get skipped over - 5's and 7's being a lot more popular. Second, it's a 3 section rod, which puts a lot of people off. In the old days, I used to fish 3 section rods all the time, but in more recent years I have gone for the 4 section rod myself. Anyway, new this rod cost $385 and it is in pristine condition. I used it once for about a half an hour - so it's really brand new. I'll take $225 for it. It is the Aeroflex model which has the titanium guides, which is the reason this model was discontinued. Comes with a bag and aluminum tube.

[TGIF]

I have a 4 pc, 5wt, Sage Rod, that I continue to love. Very transportable, easy to assemble, and i have had no issues with the multiple pieces. I'm intrigued by the 7 piece rods for travel, but as many have mentioned, that is a lot of different things to break.

I'm all for 4 pieces.

[Hegel]

Kype,

I've got two 4-piece rods. I think they're great. They pack well into an overhead compartment (or a large suitcase). They also (with the proper rod tube) pack down nice and small and can easily be lashed to a backpack for a hike to your favorite hidden mountain stream.

Like others, though, I also worry about the ferrules. I have never had one break or split on me (but I'm really careful putting it together and taking it apart). While you've asked about Hardy rods (Holy Crap - they're expensive!!!) and Diamondback / Diamond Flyrods (They're nice - I liked the one that I casted), my two 4-piece rods are TFO rods. The cool thing about TFO rods is that there are little alignment dots on the ferrules. It makes lining up the rod easy as pie. It's such a simple idea, I am always surprised that all rod companies don't do it.

As for using wax on the ferrules, I don't. I use an old trick my dad taught me years ago. The human face makes a hell of a lot of oil. Rubbing the male ends of each piece of the rod along the side of your nose, or on your forehead, usually provides just about the perfect lubrication. I know it might be a bit weird, but it works.

I'm not sure this email will be useful, but there's my bit.

-Hegel-

[OTTER]

Question to all. That nose oil worked great on metal ferrules: But now with the graphite connections, would wax be better? I never heard of wax until I read this post. When I learned from my grandfather ( born in 1878) everybody used the nose or forehead for lubrication. I am willing to learn from you youngsters.

[Hegel]

Otter,

I *am* a youngster (a mere 31 summers), but I have graphite rods and this old technique still works on my rods. But maybe I'm just an oily guy.

I have to say: Putting together the sections of my first really light rod (a four piece, three weight) made me so nervous that I rubbed the rod pieces on my face for about 20 minutes! Silly, I know. But, the ferrules are still holding up nicely - even on my TFO's. And, they've never slipped during a cast.

-Hegel-

[Steamtrain]

this is my opinion
modern graphite ferrules should not be waxed or greased




now for a little funny
that is just plain disgusting


someone should contact a few rod makers to get their opinions

[HarryM]

When you purchase a new Orvis or Beaverkill rod, in the little booklet that comes with the rod it specificaly tells you to wax the ferrules - St. Croix does too, they even go so far as to make little wax blocks with thier logo melted into them. So at least two major and one not-so-major manufacturer's I know of say yes to the wax.

I knew about the nose/face oil thing - an old timer told me about that but I wasn't sure that it really produced the desired results. When wax is applied to ferrules, you are supposed to twist the ferrules together as to spread the wax thereby create some sort of seal. In this type of application I believe the wax is less of a lubricant and more like a tacky substance to make it sticky, so sections won't come apart during casting.

All I know is early in my FF days I did not used to wax ferrules and my rod sections would often come apart - since the wax it has never happened since.

[mr. bones]

All the rods we build are given a coat of Pledge if you can believe that. Couple reasons for this:
1) Helps protect the graphite finish itself
2) Helps prevent wear and tear on the ferrules.

We recommend the angler puts on a coat of pledge every 6 months or so for protection.

Anybody having problems with a 4 piece rod exploding got a piece of junk. With ferrule designs these days you will be hard pressed to tell the difference between a 4 piece rod and a 2 piece rod.

[fessiewig]

We recommend the angler puts on a coat of pledge every 6 months or so for protection.

Who is the "We"?

[Steamtrain]

When you purchase a new Orvis or Beaverkill rod, in the little booklet that comes with the rod it specificaly tells you to wax the ferrules - St. Croix does too, they even go so far as to make little wax blocks with thier logo melted into them. So at least two major and one not-so-major manufacturer's I know of say yes to the wax.


thank you HarryM

what about internal ferrules(scott and winston rods) are those supposed to be waxed?

[fessiewig]

what about internal ferrules(scott and winston rods) are those supposed to be waxed?

I've been waxing the ferrules on my Scott and Winston rods for 30 years now with absolutely no problems! I've never, to my recollection, had an of my rods "blow up" or come apart during casting and the ferrules are no worse for the wear.

[Kype+]

I have been around the wax thing for some time. I found it very useful with tip over butt ferrules but I do not use any lube on spigot type ferrules. The good people at Winston Rod told me not to use wax on the ferrules so I do not. The dry mating of the graphite is secure and the tip doesn't move if the ferrules are matched correctly. Have you noticed how there is a space between the male and female sections? With time as the rod is used this space will grow smaller. Used long enough your rod may need a trim to the female ferrule. I have had several Winston rods which got a trim.

In the old days using bamboo rods with nickel sliver ferrules we took Ivory soap, not just any soap, and rubbed it dry on the male ferrule. We mated the ferrules a number of times then wiped the male clean with a dry cloth etc and used a fresh Q-tip to clean the female. This both lubed as well as helped to control corrosion. Remember to never twist bamboo when mating the ferrules. I was taught not to use facial grease on the ferrules.

I have been reading the accounts of good luck with 4 piece rods which is good to hear. I may come to it but man it is tough for me to get all warm and fuzzy. As for back packing to a mountain stream, it is not like me to fish anything but the largest rivers I can find and in New England that means it is at road side so I don't have that great a need for making the rod a small unit. I can see how a mountain stream fisherman would want that very much.

[fessiewig]

Kype,

I have a passenger car and transport my gear in the trunk. A 4 pc rod is a definite advantage over a two pc in my situation.

I was taught to use absolutely nothing on the ferrules of my cane rod. All you should do, I was instructed, is to make sure they are clean & dry. 1st rule of cane is "don't twist"! :)

[Kype+]

fessiewig

You guys may get me to purchase a 4 piece yet! I am shipping a Hardy 3 pice back for a tip replacement today. If it all goes well and the turn around is timely I may not need to make another rod purchase for a few years. If not It looks like it is hard to find anything but a 4 piece in a new rod! The Diamond back Co. makes two piece rods for at a reduced price for people like me who don't have the great need for a 4 piece rod. It wouldn't hurt me to have a back up 9 ft #5 but I like my Hardy and frankly I am tired of chaseing the latest and greatest in fishing gear.

I have so much fishing stuff at this point I would rather buy an additional guitar or two. A Martin D45 would be nice and a good Ameracan Fender Strat would be appreciated as well and while were are at it a Les Paul might just have a different sound than my Gibson L6-S. May as well get me one of them too!

Thanks guys for all the info on 4 piece rods!

Bobby

[jdbrookie]

I have not fished the Diamonbacks that you mentioned, but I have fished a 4wt Trout Series Diamondback. Decent rod, medium action.

In my opinion, 4pc is the way to go. As mentioned by previous posters, an even number of sections breaks down much better when moving between spots. Never had a problem with pieces coming apart or twisting. I have a 3pc 3wt that I'm going to replace with a 4pc 2wt as soon as I get a chance to build it.

[Lincoln Brook]

I primarily fish backcountry steams and ponds that require hiking of a few miles or so, like my namesake, the Dry river and Stillwater Junction, so I only have 4 piece rods for this reason. I dont think you will have any problems if you get one for yourself.

[Kype+]

Boys!

You talked me into it. My 9 ft. #5 Hardy will back in August. I can’t wait till August to have a 9ft #5. I ordered up a Diamondback Classic Western 9ft #5 4 pic.

Do we have water or what! I got out the other day on the Mascoma River and caught two nice brown trout. I fished for about 45 min just at dusk. One trout coughed up a large well digested minnows. I can remember just one trout, a rainbow in the Winooski River doing that.

The White River is blown out but should be running clear and on the drop soon provided we don’t get hit with rain!

I am headed to Conn to fish with an old friend on the weekend. With luck I will be breaking in the Diamondback. Ed has hatches going gang busters on all the small and medium size Conn streams. I hope you guys have fun while I am in Conn.

Bobby

[fessiewig]

Hope you have fun in Connecticut while we're having fun here! :D :D

[Kype+]

fessiewig

My friend Ed has been fishing the Farmington River all winter catching one 18+ brown trout after another and they look good too! I shipped him some of my killers and he e-mails me with pictures of these bozos' my flies in their mouths while I stoke the woodstove.

He has also been fishing a nice size small dark freestone stream with a hemlock canopy that permits easy fly casting. I started him fly fishing there back in 1974. It still has wild browns and brook trout living side by side since before I was born. The other day was the first time he ran into anyone else fishing it. I fished it for years never seeing a soul except for the upper stream area where there was easy access. I had several miles of stream with no roads all to myself. He caught a pile of fish in it the other day and e-mailed me the pictures of the best browns. It made my heart jump for joy to see those browns again! They are somewhat a unique looking lot. Big blue hallows around red dots but not nearly as many dots as you find on Battenkill River browns. They're great looking fish. If I could figure how to post pictures I would do it but my computer connection is poor and it disconnects all the time. Times like this I wonder why I ever left the banks of the Housatonic where I was born. I didn't know how good I had it or how good it would become. Not that this is bad fishing here but the season is so short cut off by summer and winter. What do we get, May & June / September & October and that is it. Not much the rest of the year no matter what the legal season may be. I remember pioneering the winter fly fishing season on the Housatonic before I moved to Vermont. Day in and day out there was only my tracks in the mud or snow. People were slow to catch on. I developed some interesting flies and techniques which work here but in very limited areas and fail in December no matter the break in the weather.

It will be good to see my old friend again. This season I am going to get him up here to see some of the beautiful water we have before the blues, striped bass and albacore pull him to the sound where he lives 100 yds form the beach.

Anyone have any experience with the little 6 ft. #5 Diamondback glass rod or other models of the Diamondglass line of rods?


Bobby

[bridgeman]

Bobby, I have a mid eighties vintage Black Diamond rod that has served me well for salmon.bass,trout and schoolie stripers. It has had both the tip and the butt section replaced on the lifetime warranty.At the time,it was a very expensive rod and cost me almost a weeks pay, such as it was at the time. I use this rod often and like it's med/fast action very much. In fact,I caught two nice LL salmon in Alton Bay on Sunday using this rod. At the time of purchase,Diamond rods where part of Cortland and may be to this day. I have found their customer service to be excelent with no nonsence and a turn-around in a week or ten days. This rod has great balance and feels very light in the hand for a seven weight. I will bring it along on our next trip and let you try it.
Norm

[Kype+]

Norm!

We are getting to that time of year agian! Let me know when it is time to fish salmon and I will met you there again this season. It will be fun to get on that water again! Yes I will want to see that rod. I'll bring along this one as well.

Tight Lines!

I learned of a 23 inch brook trout caught and released in the Amanonsic River a few days ago. I was told it was a hold over hatchery fish. Who knows for sure but it made for a good story after a long winter.

Bobby

[bridgeman]

I think mid-may should be just about right. I"ll pm you in a couple of weeks.

Norm

[Kype+]

Norm

Please do that!

Bobby

[Kype+]

UPS dropped off my new Diamondback 9ft. #5 Classic Western 4 piece rod this afternoon. It is a well manufactured handsome rod. So far I like the up locking reel seat with a lovely burl walnut spacer. The wrappings are nicely done. The tip top could have a larger ID but it is classic. The action is a progressive type that seems to dampen quickly. It feels like a good rod for wets, nymph and bucktails. The cork is of the western shape very similar to a Winston. It has a nice ring hook keeper and what appears to be a nickel silver cork check.
All those pieces!!!!!!!! I don't know. I could get out my slow drying epoxy if it becomes a problem. :wink:

[Kype+]

I have been fishing the Diamondback for almost a week now and I finally took the plastic wrap off the cork. I think I will keep it. I do not like all these pieces but I have not had the pieces move yet. Setting up the rod is more than twice the work of a two piece rod. The reel has plenty of room for the foot to move from side to side. I generally have to adjust the reel position a time or two each outing but in general it feels like a good rod. I will know for sure by the end of next week now that I will begin to fish rivers and start pushing the rod a bit instead of fishing small brook trout streams. It does do a nice job of manipulating bucktails. I am confident it will fish nymphs and wets well.
I enjoy having a bit of weight in the rod which this does have. I think a rod with a little weight helps casting and accuracy. When I fished bamboo I noticed the weight of the rod helped complete the cast. There was follow through on the casting stroke from the inertia derived from the weight of the rod put in motion at the start of the casting stroke. This allowed the caster to relax and guided the rod through the completion of the cast. I think when our graphite rods become very light the caster must be more active through the entire casting stroke to control accuracy. Some times I think it demands more from the caster than bamboo. Does anyone have thoughts or observations on this?

[overmywaders]

Kype,

"Does anyone have thoughts..." I have thoughts, but I don't know how useful they are.

Certainly, to me the mass of a rod actually allows easier casting and greater accuracy, in moderation of course. The old expression "let the rod do the work" has truth to it, as John Merwin points out in "The New American Trout Fishing". Mr. Merwin suggests, as an experiment to illustrate the virtue of mass, that one wind a bit of lead wire at several points in the tip section of a graphite rod. He finds that the added mass makes a significant difference in the ability to make short casts.

I have only tried one graphite rod, so I am no authority on that subject. But i have had 4/5/6 piece cane rods. Even a 9' six-piece cane rod is mainly ferrules and is stiff, extremely heavy, and a complete bother. OTOH, a five piece 7' valise (aka, Sabbath-day rod, trunk rod, poacher's special) rod while it has a lot of metal and is quite stiff, is a functional implement, though no joy. OTOH (for those with three hands), Bob Corsetti sold cane rods by Bob Taylor that were 7'6" 4/2 5wt that I can attest were far superior in their casting abilities to many two piece rods of the same length and line weight. I drooled over those rods. (You may purchase such a rod for me, upon request.).

[Kype+]

So Reed I take that response to mean I wasn't hallucinating when that epiphany came to me unless the hallucination and reality were on the same path wave at that moment.
John Merwin is the real deal. His leaving FlyRod&Reel was a major loss. Sure miss him.

[Kype+]

Dear Lord! Why did I ignore these rods for so long! I took the Diamondback on to some big water yesterday and had the chance to push the rod with a IV sink tip line and a #4 bucktail. Mister man it handled it very well! It dampens well and does a good job of manipulating a fly. It is all together the equal of comparable Winston and Hardy Rods at an affordable price!

[Adam L.]

Nice rods aren't they!!!! Have you landed a fish with it yet? I find that diamondback really shines when u have a good size fish on and can feel every head shake and almost know what the fish is going to do next. Also they are rugged as hell which is a real plus when bushwacking.

Get your warranty card in quick though. Unless they have changed you only have 30 days to register the rod or the warranty is no good. Have fun good luck.

[Kype+]

Adam L.

I am sure you are correct. I have no doubt about the rod's ability to play fish well.
I haven't hit any good size fish with it this season just dinkey brook trout and a salmon smolt. This next week will turn on some big fish! :D

Bobby

[fessiewig]

Otter,

With due deference to your Grandfather, everyone I know (including some cane rod makers) say not to use nose grease on the metal ferrules of a cane rod. In fact "clean and dry" is what they recommend.

Now when it comes to graphite, I head straight for the candle. On new rods I use just a little, if any. I rub on the wax and then take a clean cloth and wipe off most of it. As the rod ages and the ferrule wears, I leave more wax on the male end to compensate for the wear and thus maintain a tight connection.

[overmywaders]

fessie,

I agree with you about the "clean and dry" on nickle-silver ferrules except when the ferrules are loose. I had an F.E. Thomas Dirigo 9' 3/2 that I used for five years or more with loose ferrules without a problem, so long as I carried a candle stub and waxed them before fishing to tighten them. I never leave home without a candle stub.
************
The Versatile Candle Stub
I carry a candle stub in a pocket of my fishing vest. This white parrafin has been used for five years to tighten a loose ferrule or lubricate a tight ferrule, wax a line to float it, scrapings became firestarters, and it could even light my way off the stream, if I should lose my flashlight.

The Other Fly Floatant
Albolene, a cosmetic cream for cleaning makeup from skin, has long been used as a fly floatant. It does a excellent job of floating the fly, melts at skin temperature, and leaves no oily or sticky mess on your hands. A lifetime supply of twelve ounces is available for $9 - $11 at most pharmacies. The best container for this is the accordion-like reel grease containers, they make squirting the gel quite easy. Heat the Albolene by the double boiler method and pour it into your chosen container for streamside use.
***********
Oh, I also always carry two 4"x4" squares of rubberized shelf liner in the back of my vest. These give a great grip if ferrules are reluctant to part.

[Casey A. Wood]

O.K., It's been driving me nuts, but a foolish question, why "white" wax? Some of the candle stubs in my backback are colored. Is it because of the chemicals that color them that are no good to a fly rod?

[fessiewig]

Tradition! :P

[Casey A. Wood]

I guess I shouldn't think outside the box. But thanks.

[Kype+]

I think the wax application to graphite rod ferrules is still not a done thing here. First of all tip over top waxing is one thing but graphite spigot ferrule waxing is another. Perhaps we should contact various rod makers and ask their opinion.
Personally I do not hesitate to wax tip over top ferrules but I specifically remember being told as a Winston dealer back in Tom Morgan's time with the co. not to wax the spigot ferrules. That being said St. Croix does supply wax for this purpose. Does it matter? Does waxing or not waxing cause a rod any problems? I am not saying anyone that waxes is wrong I am saying the final word is not in on this matter. I sure as heck want to know. I often think as I do wax the one St Croix saltwater rod I own if it is the waxing that sometimes causes the guide alignment to shift or not? My Hardy, Winston and now Diamondback rods stay put with no wax application. What's it all about? :?

Bobby

[Casey A. Wood]

That as it may be, when I posed the question about my rod coming about (LL Bean), he was the one to suggest it, and he's the dealer. But since then, I am paying attention on putting the pieces together firmly, and have no problems since. I like the rod, 9 ft, and can fairly good with it.

[Kype+]

I have been fishing the Diamondback 9ft. #5 Classic Western 4 piece rod for some time now and have to say it is a good rod. I have not found the 4 piece construction one bit helpful to date. I would rather this was a two piece rod. I break it down to two pieces when I leave it in the truck over night and drive the river from pool to pool with it as one piece with the tip sticking out the window and the reel in my hat on the passenger side floor. Occasionally I have to adjust the sections as they will move in time with casting and playing fish.
Now that my loving wife cleaned the porch, I have been leavening the rod in one piece standing in the corner of the room ready for the next evenings fishing. For a time I was taking it down and setting it up each evening. It is a chore and invariably I find I am moving the sections around while on the water. Once I have it set up right with the guides and reel in good alignment I hate to take it down it is such a pain for me to get it back to being aligned and settle in.

I am sure the four pieces are a great thing for those who do not live on a river and have to travel to fish and fish infrequently or prefer to hike as much or more than fish. There must be a bunch of people in that situation for the rod Co's to have chosen to go the 4 piece route in rod construction but for a guy like me that fishes most every day and lives 5 min from a good river it is a whopping pain in the butt!

I am a big river fisherman and I would have to travel one hellishly long way from New England to find a big river I had to hike into. I don't know a big river in New England, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, or the Quebec Gaspe' which requires major hiking and the need for 4 piece rods. I have never lost a two piece rod flying to Atlantic salmon fishing destinations nor have I ever felt encumbered by a two piece rod in the way I am by the 4 piece rod. Again, that being said the rod is a good rod.
When I purchase another rod it will not be a 4 piece. I might try Ebay; there must be a pile of good two piece rods for sale at this point.

Perhaps this post will be helpful to someone who has similar fishing requirements to mine.