View Full Version : Another Golden Oldie
02-02-2009, 10:56 AM
Maynard's Marvel/Golden Marvel/Keene Fly?
02-03-2009, 03:47 PM
I have see that fly called the Maynards Marvel but I know it as the Golden Marvel.
The original is one of my favorite and most effective flies.
Any way you could post the recipes for the original pattern the subsequent variations which became their own patterns?
02-03-2009, 08:02 PM
This is the
Tied by Royce Stearns http://globalflyfisher.com/streamers/guest/stewart_leeman/maynards_marvel_-_stearns.jpg (http://globalflyfisher.com/streamers/guest/stewart_leeman/pic.php?border=1&ref=37&name=x/xmaynards-marvel---stearns.jpg) Thread: Black
Tail: Red hackle barbs
Body: Embossed silver tinsel
Wing: Golden Pheasant crest feather curving downward over which sparse light blue calftail over which mallard flank tied flat on top.
Throat: Red hackle barbs
NOTE: Some versions use peacock herl in place of blue calftail under the wingfrom http://globalflyfisher.com/streamers/guest/stewart_leeman/
I have been looking for that pattern.... and also for a way to tie it without using an entire Golden Pheasant Crest....
OMW... isn't that Joe's Smelt?
02-04-2009, 06:49 AM
No, it seems to be Maynard's Marvel. Here is the page from Dick Surette's book (sorry about the pic, I was too lazy to get proper lights so I used a flash and then repaired it from two shots):
02-04-2009, 08:17 AM
There is another fly called the "Pumpkinseed" It was tied By Orah Smith on old school tyer from Keene New Hampshire/ One of Talleurs books goes into some detail about these flies.
02-04-2009, 01:55 PM
I was wondering if anyone would pick up the difference between the fly pictured and the one in Surette's book. I figured that wetfly or overmywaders would be the ones to do so. Dick Stewart and Bob Leeman changed the name in their book, Trolling Flies for Trout and Salmon, to Golden Marvel. Some old timers mat remember it as the Keene Fly.
Ora Smith is one of NH's legends. He created dozens of patterns, Canopache, Merdith Special, Granite Laker, Silver Smelt and the Ringer to name a few. Most of these flies were tied for the Lakes Region and often tied tandem, quite a few are in the Stewart and Leeman book.
The fly in the picture has 15 crests, the original pattern calls for as many as 24. You can see why they sell for so much; if you can find one for sale. Another well known lakes region tier, Hank Northbridge used Thompson's Ultra Hair along with the golden pheasant crests, not sure if this stuff is still on the market, Mill Stream makes a similar product, and Super Hair is also close.
The substitutes look OK, but there is no good way to replace the original crests. What ever you want to call it is IMHO the prettiest fly to come out of NH.
02-04-2009, 03:09 PM
For anyone interested:
The Canopache- http://www.rareandunusual.com/canopache.html
The Pumpkinhead- http://www.dicktalleur.com/proj6b.pdf
I'm no expert or fly scholar, I rely on websites like this for my patterns. The Marvel was one of the first I stumbled across and I have had such success with it in all types of water and all over new england, that its variations have always sparked a keen interest. I have never been able to find a published pattern for the golden marvel, but the GP crest wing and JC body feather shoulders seem to be a constant. I never knew whether the tinsel should be gold or silver to be "right". If it is in the S&L book then that is a shame, it is out of print and the hoarders who have used copies want hundreds of dollars for them.
TGIF- I went looking for the "official" pattern for the Joe's Smelt and found a dozen different versions, and I could have kept going. The consistent elements of the pattern which differentiate it from the marvel seem to be: the body is silver mylar braid instead of tinsel, and the wing is pintail flank, although mallard is often substituted.
Mountain Angler- thanks for posting this stuff.
02-04-2009, 04:04 PM
Ellis Hatch still ties the fly commercially. Stoneriver has it and the crests are unbelievable you could tie about five flies from it!!
02-04-2009, 08:52 PM
Some local tyers here in Western MA, tied a trolling fly for Quabbin that looks like the fly pictured in the original post, but without the cheeks. It was known locally as the "Red Eagle". The pattern used an obscene number of crests. The same tyers also tied the Maynard's Marvel, also as a trolling pattern for Quabbin. Both patterns were very popular in the sixties and seventies, but AFAIK, aren't being tied commercialy in my area now.
02-05-2009, 05:28 PM
I.d like to add a little bit of history to the Maynards Marvell. I have been fishing the Merrymeeting R. and Alton Bay since 1974. When we first started to fish the river there was a gentleman by the name of Jean Lavallee who tied the Mynards Marvell and used it very successfully on the Merrymeeting and the Bay. It caught on very quickly and we all started tying the Maynards Marvel. Being new to fly tying then, I didn't realize that Jean,s version was probably his version of Ora Smith's. If I remember correctly and I believe some of you out there will confirm, the Maynard's Marvel had a silver tinsel body, w/ red hackle tail, red hackle throat, and the top feather was only Golden crest. Golden crest was inexpensive then.That's how I was told to tie it,and still tie it that same way today. Yes, there were many versions, Ora Smith being the originator, but it has seen a metamorphosis over the years.
Casey A. Wood
02-09-2009, 02:37 PM
Over the weekend I bought the materials for the Maynards fly. The only thing I am going to do different (when I get to it this week) is use light blue flashaboo instead of the light blue impala.
02-09-2009, 03:06 PM
I wouldn't make that particular substitution. The hair underwing on a flatwing fly helps the duck flank feather sit properly over the hook, which helps it swim properly in the water. Flashabou will not do this. There is nothing visibly different about the way they swim, to my eyes. They do not undulate like a marabou leech fly, but the fish seem to notice a difference. In my experience they often take flatwings when they will ignore bucktails or featherwings.
If you want to substitute the impala use some calf tail or bucktail, very sparse. You could use white or grey, or even go for more a smelt look with pink or lavender.
Flat wings have a much different action in the water, that shouldn't be overlooked. Much like WFA mentioned, bucktails, featherwings and marabou, have a forward dart action, and perhaps some undulation with the right material.
Flat wing flys get some lateral movevment as well, based on the shape of the wing.
I agree that they are successful for that reason.
02-12-2009, 10:15 AM
There is an interesting article by David Klausmeyer in the March/April issue of American Angler entitled “Lost Treasures Discovered”, on page 8. Another version of the Maynard's Marvel is shown along with a photo of Tolman's Granite Laker. A fellow by the name of Larry Antouk came across a old notebook compiled by a Art Fuller, the notebook was passed on to a “Frenchy” Parenteau, both of these men were commercial tiers from the Monadnock region. I have in my small collection of Ora Smith flies a Granite Laker; the pattern is the same as that shown in the article. I would love to know if anyone from this board knows of any of these tiers. It would be fun to talk to them and maybe discover more about New Hampshire's fly tying past.
The pattern for the Maynard's Marvel show in the article is as follows:
Hook: Streamer of your choice
Tail: Red kiptail
Body: Red floss, first half and silver tinsel front half
Wing: Golden Pheasant crests
Shoulders: Golden Pheasant tippet
Casey A. Wood
03-12-2009, 08:46 AM
Overmywaders, I was wondering if you could take a picture looking down on your fly.I've been tying some and the feather seems huge to me. Thanks.
03-12-2009, 01:20 PM
What type of feather are you using? If it's mallard, you will find it very difficult to find proper feathers for the wing. A wing feather needs to be long, slender, straight, and the shaft needs to be central to the feather. Generally, you'll have to sort through a lot of mallard before you find proper feathers.
Pintail, if you can find it, is a much better feather for flatwings. Teal also works, but, here again, you'll have to do some sorting to find the right ones.
Casey A. Wood
03-12-2009, 03:00 PM
Mallards it was. And you're right FF99. Iwas sold them without instructions. Went back and asked how to use them and was told like what you said. They just don't look right, either time I tried them. I'll check into the pintails. Maybe I can't read, but didn't I see mallrad breast feathers listed?
03-12-2009, 03:28 PM
You can use mallard, but you have to find the right feathers for the job. Ask around at some shops in the area, and see if they have anything suitable. Pintail is far superior, but nowadays is hard to find. Here again, ask around at the shops, and search the net.
03-12-2009, 03:45 PM
Call Featherside Flies at 207-924-3886. They are in Corrina, ME. I've never dealt with them......just saw their website. Looks like if you tell them what you are tying, they could help you.
03-12-2009, 04:43 PM
I looked for a Maynard's Marvel photo from above, but no luck. Dick Talleur has a nice website and does a writeup on a Maynard's variation, see www.dicktalleur.com/proj6a.pdf (http://www.flyfishinginnh.com/forum/www.dicktalleur.com/proj6a.pdf)
For more info on flatwing streamers (including the Maynard's Marvel) see http://globalflyfisher.com/streamers/raske/flatwing/flatwing.htm
and for tying instructions see http://globalflyfisher.com/streamers/tips/flatwing/flatstyl.htm
03-12-2009, 05:45 PM
This is about what you should be shooting for. The flank feather will shrink a little when it gets wet. The key is finding a feather that is the right size for the size hook you are tying on. The feather should be about the same length as the hook. If you use a feather that is too large the wing will be too narrow; too small and the wing will be too wide. Too wide a wing will make the fly spin in the water, too narrow and I think the fly will not have enough of a profile from below, which I think may be the reason this style is so successful.
03-12-2009, 05:47 PM
One more thing- keep any hair underwing SPARSE! Just enough to keep the flank feather from curling around the hook shank.
Casey A. Wood
03-13-2009, 06:23 AM
I've exhausted all the shops that might carry pintails. Looks like I'll need to order them.
But I am a little confused on the length of the feather. Looking at the picture that OMW has, it looks like the feather extends beyond the bend in the hook. Or am I just looking at it wrong?
Casey A. Wood
03-13-2009, 06:26 AM
I have exhausted all the local shops and no one has just pintails. I'll check the above website.
But I am a little confused on the picture OMW has posted. It looks like the feather extends beyond the bend in the hook, or am I just looking at it wrong?
03-13-2009, 09:00 AM
The proportions on the pictured tie look good. I like mine just a tad longer...to the end of the tail, but that's just a matter of preference. As far as wing feathers go....did you follow the link to the instructional video? You can use mallard, but not all mallard feathers would work. You need to sort through all that you you have and see which ones, if any, will "fit" the size hook you want to use. Unfortunately, you could go through a whole bag of mallard, and not find any suitable feathers.
If you can find pintail, (it's difficult to find), great, but if you can't, try teal. Not as good as pintail, but usually better than mallard. If you deal with people familiar with the patterns and sizes you are tying, they may have some mallard that will work for you.
Hope this helps.
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