Interesting Sight on the NewFound River

[NHmountainman]

Couple weekends ago my wife, son and I were walking down the road that leads to the first dam that then becomes the Newfound River. We saw this guy fishing below the the first dam with a long pole, probably about 15 feet long. Then we watched him catch something and then bait the end and continue fishing. We then noticed that the pole had no real, so this was something I had never saw before.

As we turned around to leave, Fish and Game pulled up in a truck and the officer snuck around through the woods to approach the guy. I could not see what was taking place, but a minute later the officer emerged with a 5 gallon duck-sauce bucket full of fish. He showed me what was in the bucket...several small trout, some bass, and I believe some horned-pout (yes I know what they look like), about 10-15 in total. The officer commented the fisherman was an asian fellow using some sort of asian fishing pole using live bait. The officer was pissed, I figured he must have busted the guy before. At that point we left, but took note of the fisherman's car.

Later in the afternoon, we drove through town and saw the same, very distict car parked behind the Chinese food restuarant in town...those fish may have been going into the lunch special or their own meals.

Good to know the Fish and Game are out there...this was not the first time I've seen live bait fisherman on the upper Newfound.

[Steve H.]

Wow...that is totally insane. I know that stuff happens on the lower Merrimack, but the Newfound?? What this state needs is extremely tough anit-poaching laws. It seems these criminals don't give a hoot about the existing laws or, even more troubling to me, the resources that they abuse for their own profit.

[fessiewig]

THIS IS NOT A DEFENSE OF THE ABOVE ACTIONS!

What I believe we are seeing is most likely a clash of cultures. If any of you have spent time in another country you'll remember how difficult it was to understand just how to act and what was considered O.K. and what was not. This is especially true with the Oriental cultures. Let's not go off half cocked. If someone from another culture violates our F&G laws and is told about it and continues to violate them, that's one thing. If they violate a F&G law and are told about it and cease, well some of us have been in that very same situation. Let's be careful where we take this. I noticed in the above account the F&G Officer did not arrest the person, so I'm thinking it wasn't a particularly bad violation, maybe that person's first.

[Steve H.]

I hear ya, Fessiewig, and I'd be the last person to generalize one action against an entire group of people (race, ethnicity, or otherwise). By no means were my comments meant to single out anyone other than the individual(s) committing the offense.

I still stand by my statement that our state needs tougher anti-poaching laws. If people are harvesting fish that are too small, through illegal means, out of season, or in any other unlawful manner, for personal consumption or for profit, they should face stiff penalties!!!

We all know that there aren't enough enforcement officers to patrol every spot in the state, and since this is the case, stiffer penalties in the form of HUGE fines or even imprisonment need to be enabled as a deterrent.

[overmywaders]

A strong message is sent when CO have the right to confiscate fish, fishing equipment, and vehicles of poachers. It also helps pay for enforcement efforts. Drawback: Poachers might shoot at COs rather than have their gear confiscated.

Best regards,
Reed
www.overmywaders.com

[fessiewig]

I'm fine with everyone. I just didn't want this to degenerate into something we don't need.

[NHBowman]

Culture is not the issue here. The fact that he broke the law is. It doesn't matter what culture or country you are from, whether you're from China or the neighbor from down the street. If you are going to fish or hunt in NH you need to know the laws. It's no different when one of us goes to a different state to fish. We take the time to learn what is and isn't allowed. The same would apply if we were to go to a different country. Even if you don't understand the culture you still have to understand the law.

[fessiewig]

Well, I think that was my point. Sometimes culture makes it difficult for someone to understand the law. Once again, not an excuse, but I hope we're not advocating "they broke the law so throw the book at them". That's why Judges have discretion.

[BugChucka]

It's the immigrants responsibility to assimilate, not the F&G's responsibility to edjucate. F&G officers are enforcement officers and punish those that break established rules and regulations...period. I've witnessed a few fisheries in other states get decimated by poaching immigrants. It's a clash of cultures like you say but one that's really starting to show it's colors. Wait until they start netting...I've seen it firsthand.

That's really a sad story about the Newfound...really sad.

[fessiewig]

F&G officers are enforcement officers and punish those that break established rules and regulations...period

One small point . . . it's not F&G Officers job to "punish". That's the job of the courts. Once again, I'm not disagreeing with the concept of catching and bringing to justice offenders of the laws, both F&G and others, it's just a matter of the "best way" to avoid the expensive process of apprehension and punishment of offenders. I would think it would better in many ways to educate new comers to fishing; our State; our Country and our culture. I guess that's the main point I'm trying to make. We don't have nearly enough F&G Officers to enforce the laws and anything we can do to help them by way of educating the public about F&G laws I think would be helpful to them. Also, REPORT OFFENDERS regardless of national origin.

[SaltH2oFly]

I think if I remember correctly from my early days in law enforcement...."ignorance of the law is no excuse".

[bmik]

I wonder though if in many of these type situations it isn't 'selective ignorance' on the part of the violator??
I agree with Bugchucka; if your gonna live here, learn the laws (rules).

[BugChucka]

One of the rivers I was fishing out of state was decimated by a group of about 50 or 60 illegals. They pulled up in busses and netted the river clean. I was standing in the river as they came up and threw their nets in right next to me.

The propper thing for me to do would not have been for me to pull a few aside, sit them on a log, and discuss the importance of catch and release. No... I called the game warden and hoped for some deportations. I guess I'm just old fashioned?

[MJ]

Just south of us here in NH, on the Merrimack River in Mass, there exists a most frustrating brand of poaching - determined and organized poaching. As was reported in the local paper, The Eagle Tribune, the Merrimack below the damn in Lawrence is a favorite stretch for poachers taking Striped Bass. The poachers work in teams, with the fisherman (I use that term loosely) fishing from a hidden location when possible, a lookout to warn of approaching law enforcement and a runner to ferry the fish to an awaiting vehicle where it is stashed in the trunk or other out of sight container. The purpose of the poaching is of course commercial. As reported by the Tribune many of the fish end up as the luncheon special in local restaurants or sold to individuals. Obviously, these particular poachers know quite well that what they are engaged in is illegal as evidenced by the lookouts and runners. To be sure, culture is a factor. However, is education working to overcome cultural differences and perceptions? Well, Roger Aziz, Eagle Tribune contributor wrote in July 2005: “Some years ago, I wrote a piece about how all it would take to stop some of the poaching by new immigrant groups who fish the Merrimack River is education. Plenty of time has passed since then, and guess what? The poaching is now worse than ever before.” Aziz further writes: “Recently in Haverhill, I witnessed a city Natural Resource Officer write up three Asian men from Lowell who were catching striped bass and hiding them. The abundance of striped bass of all sizes in the river in the Haverhill area draws them. It is alleged that these fishermen sell the bass to restaurants.” He continues: “Many fishermen are complaining certain groups of Southeast Asian fishermen are catching small striped bass and keeping them. Indeed, limits mean nothing as these fish are caught and filleted almost immediately. Some poachers have been caught, but all too often no one is there to enforce the law.”

The bottom line regards the above is money. The motive for the poaching is capital gain. Culture notwithstanding; these poachers are not uninformed sport fishermen or even uninformed sustenance fishermen. They are individuals well aware of the prohibitions they are taking pains to violate. They are simply people seeking to exploit a resource with a deliberate disregard for that resource. Likewise, it is lack of money, money to fund adequate law enforcement that enables and encourages continued poaching. When it comes to cash rewards for poaching, conservationist education hasn’t a chance. And, a capital increase for law enforcement capacity will have to be borne by the sportsman. As long as crimes against society continue, it will be highly unlikely that the general public will want to expend cash to deter poaching.

[fessiewig]

Now that's a reasoned and researched discussion of the issue. I am now persuaded my position may have been a bit naive.

[Flyfish99]

In recent years we have had a situation similar to the one described by Marcus1951, but on a smaller scale on the Swift River, here in MA. The target here is trout, and the perpetrators are Eastern European immigrants. They use two methods, depending on where they are fishing. In the C&R area, they use the lookout/fisherman method, and in other areas, they simply bring the whole family along, including toddlers, and the "fishermen" claim a limit for each member of the family, most of which are too young to have licenses. Others, simply fish where and how they want, and keep everything they catch. When confronted, they claim they don't speak English, but they spoke it well enough to get a car insured and registered, and find their way to the river. Actually, that group is seldom confronted, as they are some bad looking dudes who apprently have unlimited time to fish.

There was some publicity about this situation a couple of years ago, and it is not as flagrant now, but it still goes on to a certain extent. Given the shortage of Environmental Police Officers, there is nearly no enforcement presense on most trout waters in MA, so the bad guys have a clear field.
:cry:

[fessiewig]

O.K. So now we've established there is a problem with immigrant peoples over harvesting the fisheries with no regard for the law (there is little or no law enforcement available) or the fishery itself.

So, what do we do. We can complain all we want, but if we do nothing we accomplish nothing with our complaints. I once worked for a man who had a policy "no one can complain about anything without having a suggestion (a real suggestion) on how to fix the problem you were complaining about".

So what would you do?

[BugChucka]

The Fish and Game needs to establish a volunteer enforcement group. After attending classes they should be entrusted to apprehend and temporarily detain poachers and violators if need be. How else can we lighten the F&Gs load? They're already over stretched and under funded. It's time the common law abiding citizen does more than write down plates IMHO.

[Steve H.]

My position is that the punishments need to be SEVERE. When the fines are merely a fraction of the profits, illegal activites are bound to continue. Huge fines and possible jail time are the only ways to DETER the committing of these crimes. If there aren't enough enforcement officers, deterrence needs to be the primary consideration.

[BugChucka]

Damn right Steve... it's time we stop patting poachers on the wrist.

[fessiewig]

Just to take the other side for sake of the argument, what do you do with the "cruel and unusual punishment" portion of the Constitution? The punishment has to fit the crime, at least it does in this Country. You can't jail someone for 30 years for poaching fish. Now that's an extreme example, but you see my point. As much as we'd like to have "severe" punishments for these issues, I don't think you could make them stick, especially with the A.C.L.U. looking for issues like these to rail against.

IMHO we were on the right track with the volunteer enforcement group idea. I don't think it would be a good idea to try to empower volunteers with arrest powers, hell the police struggle with that and are brought to court all the time for false arrest. Imagine what it would be like for armatures. But, perhaps, a group that had a "special" telephone number that would get immediate attention from police in the local area who could then respond and detain the offender until F&G could get on scene and take over.

[PW]

A volunteer enforcement group sounds good but I wonder about how safe it would be. I think most people that are poaching are very a where of what they're doing and might not think twice about using extreme force to avoid getting caught. I certainly wouldn't think it worth getting shot over some trout. I think the answer is tough punishments with No exceptions imigrant or resident. Believe me people would think twice about poaching if it carried some jail time if caught. So how do we start pushing for this with the state F&G? Fishing is already fragile enough in NH without poachers destroying it more.

[BugChucka]

The Rules of Engagement can be extremely blurred right now in Iraq but break down to using equal force when neccessary.

After an intense course program I don't see any reason why a group of sportsmen couldn't function as enforcement officers on a part time basis. I have no problem confronting poachers, if they decide to attack me, at this time I have the right to defend myself. The rules don't change when you have an enforcement position, admitting they do means we're admitting the law is above us.

At this time we can call F&G and report violations and an officer will "or should" respond quickly. Because they're spread so thin, often times they can't. They also can't patrol as much as we need them too. Having a volunteer force would have us constantly patroling and handling violations according to F&G policy, which we'd learn at the course.

This is far fetched unfortunately but would help things change, that's for sure. Like everything else in this world there would be a lot of red tape as you all pointed out.

Growing up I was always under the impression the F&G Officer could seize vehicles and even homes for violations. There was never any question in my mind, I made sure I followed the rules. It's too bad they don't do that sort of thing, I doubt you'd see any more poaching.


Either way you cut it we need:
Harsher Punishments
Increased Patrols

[Flyfish99]

.....with the problem on the Swift was simply to talk to anyone who would listen. There were a few articles published in the newspaper, and there was at least the threat of enforcement by the State Police, who are stationed nearby. Once some light was shone on the problem, the worst of the poachers scattered like cockroaches in the light, and the problem has diminished, but not disappeared.

I don't like the idea of basically amateur lawmen given arrest powers. The best solution is to carry a cell phone, and call the nearest enforcement agency. Very often, law enforcement won't arrive in time to make an arrest, but if they get enough complaints from a specific area, they may step up patrols on their own.

Once a miscreant is arrested and convicted, however, most judges do not consider that catching a few fish illegally ranks up there with the rest of the stuff they see on a daily basis, (I can see their point on this), so they tend to treat all but the worst poachers lightly.

Poaching has always been and will continue to be a problem. My suggestion is to bring the most flagrant offenses into the public eye, via your local newspapers or whoever you can get to listen. Dragging the problem from the shadows out into the sunshine where everyone can see it, won't eliminate it, but will reduce it considerably.

Just my $0.02...as always, YMMV.

[PW]

BugChucka I was always taught that game wardens could seize property as well. My grandfather was a Maine guide and taught me not to mess around with the wardens because they could take all your stuff if they felt like it. It seems the wardens were feared/respected much more than they are today. The wardens have more to deal with than they did 50 years ago. For example look at the increase in ATV and snowmobile registrations in this state. How about the state start a different department for off road vehcile enforcement and let the wardens concentrate on the fish and game. It will never happen tho but it should.

Paul-

[Owl's Roost]

I've been watching this thread with great interest. I'd like to see a new solution to this age old problem. ( too few wardens and too few dollars to fund the problem). But I feel I must add some facts that have not come out here. As for the original offender he is a repeat customer. He was charged with fishing with bait in a fly only water. His fine for that will be $84 and loss of license for a year. He was also given a warning for over limit of bass. Now having bass in this trout water is a whole other topic but he was made to take the bass and put them back on the lake side of the dam (they were still alive).
Let's talk about this fine thing. In my experience the money side of this is nothing. It's the loss of license that usually hurts the most. Depending on how you look at it I think it's pretty sharp that our district court judges have no ability to take a license in this state. That is left to the Exec. Director of Fish and Game. The judges can recommend what they think the license suspension should be, but they aren't the deciding authority. Go and sit in on a district court like Lacnia and see for yourself how justice is metered out. It can be an eye opening experience. There are judges out there that don't have the same interest in our natural resources that we find on this forum. It's pretty evident that this guy isn't going to stop. So I agree that maybe some light needs to be shined on him in particular in an effort to make this practice socially unacceptable even in his world. Perhaps a little light focused on or Judicial System wouldn't hurt either.
As far as having more badges out there in the form of volunteers let's examine that a little further. Some years back there was a study done called the Wyoming study. Keep in mind that this was based on per capita numbers of officers in the US. In short a Game Warden is ten times more apt to be either assaulted or killed by means of a firearm than any other Law Enforcement Officer in the US. For those of you who think fishermen don't carry firearms, think again. Recently on another forum it was in fact a thread and lots of folks carry for different reasons. So, I would caution anybody who thinks he/she wants to go out and meet and greet people who are doing bad things. It is dangerous business.
I would also agree with Fessiewigs Boss who subscribes to the notion that "Don't just complain. Give me a better solution". I put that in quotes because I've said it a thousand times. In today's world with cell phones and cell phones with video it would be my opinion that one could make a pretty strong case that an offense was in fact witnessed and it would be hard to defend against. Ask those police officers in LA who decided to take batting practice on a fellow named Rodney King. And along those lines look at what that bit of sunshine produced. The whole nation was outraged and if you could calculate the number of trees that lost there life because of all the directives and SOPs that were written because of that one piece of video, you could probably shade a lot of trout stream.
I've rattled on about this long enough. We need to be ever vigilant about our natural resourses and do what ever we can to preserve them. We need each and every one of us out there making sure that it lasts for ever.

[MPSheets]

I've also watched this thread with a bit of interest, mostly selfish interest I must admit. I fish quite frequently with my 10 year old son and find it very disturbing that a few who have recently posted on this subject advocate a vigilante approach. Poaching game is not a new problem for many states. However, I'll admit with the greater cultural diversity in New England it appears to be somewhat more prevalent (for many reasons not yet discussed). I would think simple exposure through local media (as mentioned above) and education surely would have a profound effect in the areas hit the hardest. Please be mindful that not only life experienced adults and respectful anglers fish the waters of NH.

MP Sheets

[fessiewig]

MP,

I'm not sure folks have been advocating a "vigilante approach". For sure some have been a little over the top IMHO. Good citizenship requires us to report violations of the law. Certainly you are not opposed to that and I believe you to be correct when you advocate education as one of the tools in our bag. However, I've been convinced many of these violators are not anything less than criminals. They are not robbing our banks, but they are robbing our streams, rivers, ponds, and lakes.

[BugChucka]

As usual, I expected some people to feel my views were extreme........ but vigilante? I'm not talking about assuming authority, I'm talking about being certified through an intense program. It's an idea to assist in lacking enforcement through certificication. That certification program could be very strict. There's such a thing as volunteer fire departments etc... why not a volunteer F&G branch?

This very site will allow us to tackle any poaching if it gets out of hand. We're a concerned group with lots of eyes and ears at the very least. NH fly anglers could never before ban together and tackle issues like this. Thanks to the site owners we've actually already made a lot of progress.

[MPSheets]

John,

Perhaps vigilante was over the top and a bit of a knee jerk response after reading through the thread this morning (with too much focus on a single post or two). Furthermore, I agree whole heartedly that poachers of any kind are nothing but criminals. I have, in fact, reported poaching on family property in Indiana and in MI trout streams during the salmon run on more than one occasion. However, I wish only to point out that personal safety, the safety of fishing partners (adult and minor) and common sense must rein when approaching these individuals, as I’ve had a close call with a group poaching early salmon on the Baldwin R. Had they not been so dramatically impaired from a full day of drinking, I might not be here today to post my concerns. My post was not meant to be critical, but one expressing concern for those who propose confrontation. Please accept my apologies if I’ve offended anyone.

Regards,
Mike

[BugChucka]

mp ... I hate to beat this thing to death but you said I "propose confrontation," and I'd like to clarify for one last time that I do not.

[fessiewig]

MP,

Your point is well taken. And as for myself your apology is noted, although not necessary.

One of our biggest problems is the same places that have good fishing often don't have good cell service and by the time you do get to a telephone the perpetrators have gone.

That having been said, I have my cell phone programmed with the "Operation Game Thief" phone number, which is 800-344-4262. I have voice activated dialing so I've even gone one step further and have the Game Thief number voice activated so I don't have to fumble with anything. Here is a link to the F&G web page for Operation Game Thief: http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/Hunting/op_game_thief.htm

Be prepared so when you come across a violation in process you can report him/her easily. I also carry a digital camera with me on stream and will take the advise posted by Owl's Roost and take pictures when safe to do so. Those of you with phones that take pictures, well, you're all set.

Most of all, as law enforcement officers say . . . "stay safe".

[MPSheets]

BugChucka,

Again, please accept my apologies. I’m not in any way trying to single you or anyone else out with my posts. I am trying to express a real concern for those who feel a strong urge to simply ask the question ‘what are you doing’ when approaching someone who looks suspicious while on the water. As John mentioned, these ‘guys’ are not bank robbers but they do have the same general lack of respect for humanity and I’ve seen first hand how they can respond when approached. Should a volunteer extension of F&G ever be realized, my deepest respect and admiration go out to anyone considering involvement.

Again my apologies,

Mike

[MPSheets]

John,

Thanks for the numbers. I also carry a cell phone while on the water as a safety precaution (as do many, I'm sure). I'll add the numbers to the voice-activated dialing feature also. Great idea.

Mike

[fessiewig]

BC,

Don't be so defensive. The guy is just trying to urge caution on everyone's part. A good thing IMHO. If you're going to post in a forum environment you're gonna have to expect differing opinions and not everyone who expresses opinions does so precisely.

[MPSheets]

John,

Furthermore, I should start consulting my cell phone more and the DeLorme Atlas less while searching out new fishing spots. To date I've always had good reception and marginal success.

Mike

[BugChucka]

MP- It's just an internal battle I fight with myself LOL. I view poaching more seriously than most because of my love of fishing. At times I feel I view it too seriously but at others I feel I have every reason too.

This poacher on the Newfound got a slap on the wrist is what it boils down to. He was poaching when he had his license so what's going to prevent him from poaching without one?

[MPSheets]

BugChucka,

I also have a very serious attitude towards poaching and I applaud your passion. And, I expect many who post here feel similarly. Unfortunately, there is very little, presently, (as described by many above) to prevent the Newfound poacher from coming back time and time again with or without a license. However, he has been identified and those who frequent the area can keep an eye out for additional suspicious activity. Unfortunately, these morally and ethically bankrupt individuals will do as they please.
Again, please accept my apologies. I did not mean to come across as insensitive to the issue of poaching in NH fisheries.

Regards,
Mike

[PW]

Now that we have some momentum going with this thread I wonder how can we get our voices heard at F&G on this matter? Create an online petition perhaps? FFINH is going to become a sounding board for NH fly fishing issues and we should take advantage of it. I wonder if any F&G officials read our posts?

Paul-

[BugChucka]

And I'm sorry for being overly defensive...

I like that phrase... "morally and ethically bankrupt" That pretty much sums poachers up. It will be my phrase of the day. :D

[BugChucka]

First step is to nominate a good writer....any volunteers?

[fessiewig]

Obviously none from this thread. :lol:

[MPSheets]

BC and John,

I am not volunteering to actually write up the petition, as I fear I might be too obtuse in my prose (just kidding John –your previous point is well taken :lol: ). However, if any further discussion outside of the forum takes place I would like to be notified. As a newcomer to the state I have quite a bit to learn about the NH way and find this issue as a good opportunity to learn from more Sr. residents of the state.

Regards,
Mike

[BugChucka]

What's our intent...?

I think PW had a great idea:

On top of everything else, offenders should be ordered to participate in a community service program. This way they give back to the resources they plunder. A program could be established where these violators work on specific projects like river cleanups, river improvements, hatchery work etc... Maybee the department could hire a few volunteers to run the program and oversee the laborers(poachers) on weekends. If something like this was initiated I'd volunteer my time without a doubt.

[sbeausol]

If it is of interest I can make a form for those interested that will fill out your detailed info along with a letter stating the intentions we wish F & G to hear. One could print/mail or email it...

let me know-

Sean

[fessiewig]

Sounds great, Sean. How about a letter expressing our concerns and asking for a meeting where we can discuss possible ways we can be involved in solutions.

[sargie]

I would think that there would be a law on the books prohiting the sale of these fish. Why not go to the resteraunts that are buying those fish, and start fineing the restraunt owners. If there was no demand then the need for at least some of the poaching may disappear. If the chef or owner can not prove that his fish are being purchased from a reputable fish wholesaler then that would also bring into play the department of health.

Just my 2 cents.
Bill

[fessiewig]

Good thought, sargie.

[Flyfish99]

2005 NH Freshwater Fishing Digest.
Page 14, first item:
"The sale of freshwater fish is prohibited."

The above would apply to sale by the poacher to the restaurant, market, etc, and also the sale to the public by such restaurant, etc.
As is often the case, no new laws are needed, just the enforcement of existing law. I'm not familiar with the health codes in NH, but I'll bet that there are laws on the books that would also address this issue. As a public health issue, I woild think that this would be considered a much more serious offense than poaching, and is likely the way to go after the offenders.

[BugChucka]

A simple write up about this incident in the local paper would shut this place down....

If they're trying to cut costs with domestic fish it's only natural to wonder if they may be using domestic housepets as well...

Ruff......Rufff

Meow....

[PW]

Nothing wrong with a little cat gut in your egg drop soup!

[NHmountainman]

I spoke to owner of the home by the first dam on the Newfound earlier today while fishing the river...he said that the Chinese guy came back the weekend after I saw him...he came back with a fly-rod with a bobber and live bait on the end and cleaned up again...unfortunately, F&G was not able to catch up with him...

[MJ]

A persistent problem indeed. :(

[BugChucka]

I'll be completely honest, If I saw that guy right now he'd be leaving the river with one swollen face.

[fessiewig]

The problem with that BC is your the one that would end up in jail, not him. I wonder if the person that owns that house could be persuaded to call the Game Thief hot line every time they see that person there.

[sbeausol]

I expect that the home owner is the one who called F & G. From the sounds of it they weren't able to respond quick enough this time....

[BugChucka]

Fessie... I hope the homeowner does contact the F&G when stuff like this happens. This guy's obviously a flagrant poacher and need's to be dealt with.

[Flyfish99]

.....if the guy who lives nearby were to take some pictures of the poacher in action, and his car, showing the plate number. The pictures could be turned over to law enforcement, putting the ball in their court.

[fessiewig]

This guy is well know to F&G as I understand it.

[NHmountainman]

The homeowner does keep watch and he does notify F&G...however, F&G is not always available...

[BugChucka]

It's nice to here that the homeowner keeps an eye out... stuff like that goes a long way.

[Steve H.]

If this guy is "well known to F&G", then this totally justifies what I posted what I did earlier in this thread!!!

What we need are MUCH more severe penalties for this kind of behavior!! This guy is simply saying F-you to Fish and Game, not to mention the resource and all of the law abiding anglers such as you and me.

HUGE FINES AND IMPRISONMENT are what are needed here!!!

[BugChucka]

Absolutely, this jerk is taking advantage of a weak system.


Fessie... as far as going to prison...I guess you're right
Look how this guy wound up when he decided enough was enough and took things into his own hands!


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/20/AR2005082000922.html

[fessiewig]

It's not that I disagree with you Steve, it's just I don't believe you'll see that happen. The laws on the books now a stronger than the sentences being handed out buy the courts. F&G can run these people into court all they want, but if the courts don't clamp down and start handing out the "max" penalties you're going to get people like this guy thumbing their nose at us.

ADDED What I'd like to see is immigration called in to make sure this guy is in this country legally. Also they should check everyone at his work place as well. Make it so hot for him he'll back off.

[Steve H.]

I'm curious about the availability of information pertaining to these offenses, as far as something similar to "police logs" that would be available to everyday citizens at the town hall. We've all seen these in the local papers, written up by some entry-level newswriter, listing all of the infractions of the past week and committed by whom. It's simply a matter of visiting the town hall or police station and accessing this public information.

Is the same kind of information public in this way when it involves a conservation offense and a summons is issued? If so, I would do whatever it took to research these offenses, identify the multiple offenders, and hold the courts accountable for tough sentencing.

[Roscoe]

Just curious - could local or state law enforcement be called upon when F+G is unavailable? Or can only F+G personnel defend F+G laws? If this is the case, what about a temporary sting operation to catch this guy? I know wardens in Maine have gone to far greater lengths to catch much less serious offenders...

[Jammin' Salmon]

It's all about ethics and values and obviously this is missing in these poachers. It is probably more widespread than we imagine. Whether it be hunting or fishing poaching is stealing. I recall a conversation with a guy who was caught poaching a trophy buck on Bear Island on Lake Winni. At the time he was writing a book about angling on the lake and had asked area anglers for some anecdotal stories. When I questioned him about his poaching his response was"it's not a felony, it's not a misdemeanor, it's a violation- the same as a parking ticket"!! He couldn't believe several of the anglers he wanted in the book asked to be excluded. So much for values and morals. By the way he sells his book in a lot of the area bookstores and believe it or not in the Fish and Game store!
People who deliberately poach should face not only fines and penalties from the state but should face far more of a penalty from sportsmen.