Favorite patterns of 1947

[dcs2]

I've just been reading Arthur Carhart's Fresh Water Fishing, published in 1949. With the cooperation of the major mail order houses and other big suppliers, Carhart determined the favorite patterns, as defined by the number of flies sold through major distribution channels. The 11 top flies in the Northeast:
1. Royal Coachman
2. Gray Hackle, peacock
3. Black gnat, male
4. Parmachene Belle
5. Professor
6. Silver Doctor
7. Coachman
8. Montreal
9. Cowdung
10. McGinty
11. Mosquito
Gold ribbed hare's ear and Hendricksons were popular but did not make the list. The Coachman, Silver Doctor, and Professor were, by the way, also the top flies back in 1892. Does anybody fish the McGinty these days?

[Steve H.]

I fish the McGinty on occasion.....for bluegill. :wink:

[Flyfish99]

I don't fish a McGinty, but a clipped deer hair bumblbee pattern works real well on the Swift River (MA) in late summer. Also, I have found the Proffessor tied dry is a good searching pattern on the Upper CT.

[Steve H.]

Quick question: Is the "Montreal" the same as the "Montreal Whore"?

[overmywaders]

I have done well with the McGinty dry, on my first fly-caught trout almost forty-five years ago and then just a few summers past. Obviously, the trout haven't been informed that the pattern is passe.

A McGinty wet is, and has been since its inception, a killer pattern.

Best regards,
Reed
www.overmywaders.com
\

[overmywaders]

The Montreal is an excellent wet fly, an early pattern featuring a claret body with ribbing, turkey wing, etc.

The Montreal Whore is an entirely different fly, a streamer with orange body, white and blue wing, etc.

Best regards,
Reed
www.overmywaders.com

[Steve H.]

The reason I ask is because in print I've seen the streamer's name censored more often than Eddie Murphy on network television.

A favorite local sportswriter of mine refers to the pattern as the "Montreal Lady of the Night". Every time I see that I have to chuckle. Great fall landlock pattern, by the way.

[overmywaders]

Steve,

Personally, I find the name in very bad taste. It stereotypes, I suppose, prostitutes as "painted women", as a mockery. Prostitutes, like all people, are people -- varied in all the ways that make us human. Sorry, if I get "preachy" but I don't like that sort of support of prejudice.

Best regards,
Reed
www.overmywaders.com

[Steve H.]

Not long ago I read an interesting article about fly pattern names. Like you Reed, the author claims to be offended by the name of the abovementioned streamer.

He also states that the "Chernobyl Ant" was named in bad taste.

[Mountain Angler]

The old Hunter's catalog refered to the fly as the Courtesan. Wy wife still calls it "The Lady of the Evening".
I first saw the fly when Danny Legere (Maine Guide Shop in Greenville) sent me a sample. The fly was tied by a fellow from Rockwood and I am sorry I do not have his name. Danny said that the fly had "like its nameske flash, form and lots of action".
There is another whore fly, this one from Quebec, it is David Klausmeyer's recent book on Classic streamers.
Sometimes I think we are just a little to politicaly correct.

[Hegel]

While it's tempting to agree with Mountain Angler - that sometimes we're too concerned with what is and what is not politcally correct - in this case I think that that intuition is misplaced. Would really all that much be lost if that particular fly had a different name? I'm sure it wouldn't take too much of a search to find some "classic" fly patterns with names that might trigger the politically correct reflex in any one us. This one, the "whore fly" seems to trigger it in only a few of us.

But,....

Imagine teachnig your daughter to fly fish. "Here sweetie, why don't you tie this WHORE FLY on..." :roll:

or, alternatively,

"My wife's favorite fly is the good ol' WHORE FLY"!" :oops:

Just some thoughts...

Robb

[fessiewig]

I agree with Bill.

There are thousands of flys out there, so if the name offends you don't use it. The designer of the fly named it, as it is his or her right to do so, and I don't believe we have the right to re-name it. I don't care for revisionist history either.

[Owl's Roost]

I would suggest that if in fact you are offended by the name of this particular fly then you can simply replace the deer tail with red,white and blue Krystal Flash and now you have what is called a "Dick Tracy". It works just as well.

[overmywaders]

Well, this is a first for me, I've never landed on the side of the "politically correct" before.

It's not from a matter of delicacy, understand, that I object to the designation "Montreal Whore". The ladies that work St. Catherine's Street would probably find no problem with being called prostitutes, or the French equivalent, and may even accept "whore" in good humor; however, the flashy, nay tawdry, dressing of this fly, coupled with its name implies the tart or strumpet. Most prostitutes don't deserve such denigration. Some old friends of mine worked their way through college on their backs, and I have numerous acquaintances that turned tricks in hard times, but I wouldn't call any of them painted whores.

Would you like to be called an "elitist, Orvis-clad, yuppie fly-fisherman" because the words might be apt for some small percentage of the FF population?

JMO

FYI -- Im my experience, the people most likely to call prostitutes "whores" are cheap Johns, just trying to dehumanize women, whom they typically fear. That's $.02 worth of free street psychology.


Best regards,
Reed
www.overmywaders.com

[fessiewig]

Reed,

If we were talking about people, I'd agree with you, but we're not, we're talking about a fly, for crying out loud!

[skilly]

There's that WORD!!!! ...again....."ELITIST"

[overmywaders]

John (it's your name, don't get upset),

If they called it the "Trout Whore" or the "Fish Whore", it might not bother me. However, they are denigrating a particular class of people, in this case Montreal prostitutes. I've lived in Montreal (which, BTW, has the best-dressed women in North America) and perhaps that causes me to take umbrage. Yes, explain to your daughter why they call it a "Montreal Whore". "Well, dear, as everyone knows, Montreal whores, unlike all other whores, are garish, cheap, and tawdry. So is this fly, thus the name." Hey, that's easy!

It's just my opinion. I guess either I'm P.C. or I thought too highly of the gentlemanly ethos of fly fishermen.

Best regards,
Reed
www.overmywaders.com

[Steve H.]

While we're on the subject of offensive fly names, let's discuss the other one I mentioned, the Chernobyl Ant.

Surely the inventor could have named it the "Nuclear Ant" or even better, the "Atomic Ant", to describe it's obviously mutated features.

However this person chose a much more dark and calamitous name. Most of are aware of the horrors of that event in what is now Ukraine. Many people are still haunted by that tragedy, particularly children born with birth defects.

The attempt at black humor is lost on me. I'd argue that Chernobyl Ant is a much more offensive name than Montreal Whore.

But then again, it's just a fly.

[fessiewig]

NBD. You're entitled to your opinion. Just mark me down as being firmly entrenched in the "leave the name alone" camp. :-)

EDIT: Wow! You guys must be pulling my leg! If you're not, you need to get a life.

[petegas]

im with fessie......thanks for a laugh on a friday afternoon, fellas! :lol:

[overmywaders]

You're welcome. (Though I was serious, I am not above taking credit for any amusement it ay occasion.)

Now that we have established a solid defense for the working girl, I would like to return to the subject of the 1947 flies.

Dcs2 noted that the Coachman, Silver Doctor, and Professor were the most popular in 1892. These were all great wet flies of GB which performed well on brookies over here. The balance of the other flies (except the Cowdung and Gray Hackle Peacock) were North American born patterns designed to appeal to the fancy tastes of our native trout. Most of the flies had quill wings, a few had flank feather wings, and one was wingless. This agrees with my research that among traditional American wet flies (I'm writing an article) "70% had quill wings, 28% had flank feather wings, and the remainder were wingless".

Note that the three patterns from GB were all colorful flies. The Silver Doctor was descended from the famous "Doctor" series of salmon flies and is a beauty with its blue hackle.

The American wet flies utilized the marrying of quill wings quite effectively as you will note in the http://www.overmywaders.com/images/ericaustin/BergmanFontinalis.JPG Bergman Fontinalis.

I could go on and boor you, but another subject relevant to the 1947 flies might interest you. The price and availability of materials was delightful. The British Empire was still in force, shipping had been restored after the war, and the price of Jungle Cock skins was still reasonable (before it hit the stunning price of $5 for the top quality in 1961 http://www.overmywaders.com/extracts/flytying/herters263.jpg)
. If I can find my 1941 Herter's Fly-Tying Catalogue, I'll let you drool over the price of condor quills and sacred monkey skins.

Best regards,
Reed
www.overmywaders.com

[BugChucka]

So what happens when you mix jungle cock with a Montreal Whore...?

[Tangled Tippet]

Funny stuff! Never thought Id see the day when we would have to be "politically correct" when using or choosing the name of a fishing fly.

[SaltH2oFly]

Yes...great reading for a Monday lunch break. And Reed, politics or political correctness aside...I really appreciate your in-depth knowledge of this and other FF related subjects and I'm really glad you continue to contribute to this site. You and the rest of the members of this site really make it very enjoyable and educational to me. And of course, there always seems to be great humor available. So thank you.

Now I must get going - I need to make the next train to St. C's street!

P.S. I love the picture so much I saved as my background!

[Rick]

BugChucka Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 9:12 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So what happens when you mix jungle cock with a Montreal Whore...?


Now that's funny.... :P 8)

[overmywaders]

Just a note. Regarding the McGinty, I took two browns and a rainbow in fast water yesterday on a #10 McGinty wet; this just after a nymph fisherman worked the water thoroughly with no success. Hah!

Best regards,
Reed
www.overmywaders.com

[NHBowman]

I have had excelent success catchin salmon and brookies on a few rivers in northern Maine with a #10 McGinty. Also, a Tennessee Bee patern works wonders for me in July and August. I always keep a few of these patterns in my fly box.

[dcs2]

Reed:
I also tied a McGinty and got a brookie right off. I've now tied a few Silver Doctors and will try those next. Overall, the classic streamer patterns are working well these days. It is interesting to think that in 1947 the Hornberg was very new and that there were no wooly buggers, and certainly no beadheads.

[fessiewig]

Reed,

Tell us about your philosophy about fishing with no added weight.

[overmywaders]

fessie,

Shameless baiting. Unfortunately, i can resist everything but temptation so I accede to your wishes and delineate once again my tired old cant.

IMHO, fly fishing is more than just fishing with representations of insects and baitfish, it also involves sportsmanship. Until 1992, here in NH, the definition of Fly Fishing banned the use of weight on leader or line, and weighted flies. This is the same ban we have today on Atlantic salmon rivers in Nova Scotia, although they are working to add, and with this I concur, a ban on all sinking fly lines.

In 1980 Lee Wulff in "Lee Wulff on Flies" lamented the fact that the sport of fly fishing, historically significant though it is, had/has no universally accepted definition of itself. He was working at that time on the FFF committee to define fly fishing but gave up in disgust at the timidity of his fellows. So he offered in this book three levels of flyfishing. The first, and most sporting, is fishing with no additional weight on line, leader, or fly, and the use of a floating line. This means that to bring up a trout five feet through the water column, you had to really interest him. See LaBranche for his description of luring a somnolent brown through twenty-five casts to take a dry. This definition of fly fishing also allows a deep water/fast water sanctuary for trout. Without the use of weight, you cannot get a fly down to where the fish are holding in some rivers, you must somehow attract their attention and bring them up or wait for a more fortuitous occassion when they are surface-feeding. This is, IMHO, true fly fishing.

With the use of weight on line or leader, there is little, if any, distinction between FF and AL -- except that AL fishing is much safer than "chuck and duck".

All for now, diatribe to continue later,

Best regards,
Reed
www.overmywaders.com

[overmywaders]

fessie,

I did not indicate in the previous post that unweighted fly fishing was not dry-fly-only. I should clearly state that all manner of flies can be fished effectively without weight or bobbers, as has been the tradition from "time immemorial". While streamers and wet flies may not sink deeper than six inches in fast water, they often take trout quite readily, as the bulk of the flies presents enough "nutrition" to the quarry to justify travelling a distance to obtain it.

Best regards,
Reed
www.overmywaders.com

[fessiewig]

No, I just wanted to get your position out there where we could promote it. So often (and I include myself in this) catching the fish justifies the method. I know of several fishers who prefer to fish un-weighted flies and some who dry fly fish exclusively. I have embraced the "no added weight" method of fishing when I use my cain rod and my 3wt rod, but, alas, still use weight on my 5&7wt graphites.

Back in my early days of fly fishing I fished almost exclusively with dry flies, not out of some lofty position, but because I found I caught more fish with them.

[overmywaders]

fessie,

I thought your intentions were upright (Blue Upright -- great fly).

Referring to the changes in the regs in the early 1990's, on writer I know said:
It's true that most states have, within the last twenty years, modified their fishing ordinances to allow the use of weight on both leader and line in "Fly-fishing Only" areas... and still call it "Flyfishing". This has come about because of a rather dramatic change in the nature of the "sport" itself. Fishing, particularly fishing with an artificial fly, has gone big business. Whereas once the outdoor writer would give tips on making a portable fly-tying box from a discarded lunchpail, or how to get an extra year of life from the old waders; today his mission is to market the goods produced by the company that employs him as an "expert". The industry is also intent on making what was essentially a complex solitary pasttime with the joyous prospect of many years of learning ahead-- into a one-week course for the masses. For this, short-line nymphing was perfect as a means of getting the neophyte onto his first trout, no casting skills are required. But short-line nymphing requires weight. Hence the pressure to "relax" the rules, thus allowing the dobber plopper the status of fishing in the "Fly-fishing Only" stretch.

Of course, it's never that simple. Many earnest fishermen of longstanding were also crying for a loosening of the definition; including those that had been working zealously some years before for the declaration of "Fly-fishing Only" areas. Their principal complaint was that in fast water they couldn't get down to the larger fish without weight on their lines. Had they been intellectually honest, they would have worked to get the section of river changed to "Artificial Lure, Single Hook Only" and used spinning tackle to get their weights and lures out, a much safer practice than "chuck-n-duck".

Now, this writer is a bit of a prig, but his point might have some merit. :D

Best regards,
Reed
www.overmywaders.com

[fessiewig]

Yeah, I've heard that before and the older I get the louder the bell it rings. :?